Pretty much I use the moment of the event. Horary and electional have different rules. Electional is basically setting up a "natal" for an event. Horary is asking about events. Different cats, you see.

If you are setting up a chart for something that lasts years, obviously you want all forward aspects to count because the action goes on for a long time. (Marriage, or setting up a business.) But if you are focused on a single event --surgery, for instance-- and you can't get a long string of good aspects, settle for having the moon make just one good one and no bad ones during as much of the 24 hour period in question as possible. Use applying aspects.

If you want a letter to have some important effect, try to get the moon aspecting what you want. Example: Letter is seeking a refund for bad product. Try a good moon /Venus aspect. Venus will make people want to please you with money. Example: Letter is demanding repayment of an overdue bill, or even a bounced check. Get a moon/Mar aspect. Mars is threatening, even if the letter doesn't sound threatening, and will galvanize them into action. Example: You want an interview with an important man. Use moon/Sun aspect.

Hope these are helpful hints.

An electional chart is a planned chart for an event in the future. Unlike a birth chart, which you are stuck with and didn't plan, an election can be chosen to give you the best opportunity for success. An example might be: A time to wed, a time to start a business, a time to ask for a raise.

They, too, have certain specific rules.

The one thing a lot of students don't understand is that they don't follow the same sets of rules as the birth chart. You have to learn some new stuff to do them well.

When I do the purchase of a vehicle, I use the first person for the buyer, since the buyer in this case initiates the action (the auto dealers are always "ready" in a sense to sell, so therefore respond when customers want to buy). Sellers are 7th house.

The car is the third house--ruler and any planet in it-- but like all "moveable" items (as opposed to immovable items like real estate) also is influenced by the second. The price the seller wants is 8th house; the buyer's cash is 2nd house. Of course, if the buyer wants a loan, it doubly emphasizes 8th house.

Mercury is the general ruler of cars so good Mercury aspects are always important. Any aspect to Mercury can dominate the deal. I once bought a car with a Mercury Neptune conjunction in 9 and the bank first lost the papers for the loan and then issued two loans before finally straightening it out. The rest of the chart was so favorable it overcame any Neptune problems. I loved that car--kept it for years and passed it on to one of my kids who ran the legs off it. It was, of course, foreign.

The car's price and value is a combination of Jupiter and Saturn. Jupiter increases price and size. This can be favorable with good aspects, and overblown or over inflated (good Jupiter words) for bad aspects from Jupiter. Saturn's good aspects improve durability and value. Saturn's bad aspects imply the thing needs a lot of repair or is in bad shape or a bad model or a lemon and won't be worth anything for resale.

Venus makes pretty; often pastel or light-colored car. Bad aspects from Venus can mean a rotten paint job or interior fabric that is sleazy or unattractive, or a style that nobody likes when you go to resell it.

 Mars makes hot, or fast, or exciting. Never buy a car under retrograde Mars--it points to engine fires or things breaking at crucial times (control rods, brake linings, etc.). Neptune poorly aspecting can be trouble with fluids (gas tanks, power steering fluids, etc.) or in nice combination with Venus can be a dream car, beautiful styling, classic design.

Uranus well aspected shows innovative ideas or electronics. Bad aspects from Uranus? Don't touch it. It will have sudden and devastating problems, particularly in the electronics. That means power systems, steering, brakes, etc. It will be unreliable, and tires or anything operating with air or hydraulics is bad news. Some years ago Peugeot cars would literally rise up when started and sink down when stopped. Obviously a hydraulic design. Don't know if they still have it or not.

An unfavorable Pluto can show the car was stolen (if it is used). A rotten Neptune can show car was in a flood or accident. Ditto Uranus.

Look at your own third and you will see the kinds of cars you buy. Every car I have ever bought has been dark blue. They all have seats that fold so you can haul things and they all carry a lot and are thrifty on gas. I have Saturn in 3, and keep a car forever. I don't like black, so I never buy black cars, but many people with Saturn in 3 would buy a black one.

Interior comfort is usually Venus--how cushy the seats are, how well appointed it is in terms of comfort.

The moon is critical. The phase the moon is in will tell you about price. If you buy during a rising moon (between new and full) you will pay more. If you buy during a waning moon you will get a better deal. Never buy under the full moon: you will pay top dollar. Wait a few days and dicker.

Don't sign the papers if the time shows the moon common (or mutable) and cadent--this is the one that lands you in the soup. You won't know where you will end up with it. Try to make the deal when the moon is making either a good aspect to the third house and its ruler, or to Mercury or to the sun. There is nothing better than a nice lunar trine to the sun so use that if you can't get anything else.

Plan this out before you go to the dealer. It's the best way. Then you won't be left saying, "Oops, wait a minute here. I have to check my ephemeris."

Never buy between two eclipses or before one. If you buy under a retrograde Mercury you will be sorry, believe me. Or, you won't keep the car long.

I once told a class this and one of my students went home and told her dad not to buy the car he was planning to do the next day. He was very snotty about it, bought the car anyway, drove it two miles and THE ENGINE FELL OUT! My student didn't have the nerve to even look at him for days. We all got hysterical the following week when she told us. He resold the car almost immediately after he got the engine put back into it.

Hope this is a help.

Pat replies,
If you are going to buy a foreign (Jupiter) car, it sure helps to have a nice Jupiter transit to the 3rd. Now Honda makes cars in the U.S. but it didn't in 1982 and was strictly a foreign purchase.

I must add my opinion on this issue. I agree. l like to think of the common-and-cadent moon as a Uranus blind date: you don't know what you will get, where you will go or where you will end up. If you like surprises, be my guest, but I'd rather have a tad more certainty, thank you very much.

Ivy Jacobson (quoted) had so many important things to say that a study of her books is well worth any amount of effort.

Over the years I have found some of her principles absolutely beyond price in chart work. She's never steered me wrong.

Pat replies,

Neither the 3rd nor 4th house rules anything to do with this problem. The eyes and all matters of the face and head are a first house matter, a 6th house health problem and 8th house surgery.

The first rule is never schedule surgery on a part of the body when the moon is in the sign ruling that part of the body. In your case, don't use the moon in Aries. Libra is dandy, however.

Mars rules surgery and you want to avoid retrograde Mars if possible. Mars isn't retrograde at the moment and unless you have a first and 8th houses ruled by Venus, retrograde Venus is immaterial. Ditto Mercury.

Try to schedule surgery when the moon makes a nice aspect to either your ascendant or its ruler or 8th house ruler. Don't use the full moon. Since cataracts are removing something permanently, you can use the waning phase of the moon (between full and new), so it gives more flexibility in scheduling.

The best aspect for cataract surgery is to get the sun and moon in good aspect with each other and no bad aspects to anything else that day. Both eyes have sun/moon rulerships so that should be the goal.

Pat replies,

The first question to answer is WHY do you want to pick a special date for this religious event? Are you hoping to have a big family party afterward? Do you see this as somehow spiritually critical to the child? To the parents? Does your view of the rite make it important in determining the child's approach to religion?

In other words, what do you want this date to accomplish?

Before you can pick a date for something that is usually a routine ceremony, you have to decide why it needs a special date.

I am not being facetious. I think this is an important element of the electional process.

Hey, I know all about that! But the fascinating thing to me is the dates unconsciously picked by people who know nothing about astrology.

Those whose natal packages promise contentment end up with gonzo wedding days and people whose natal charts show unhappiness in the marriage pick awful days. The universe is much subtler that we think. It also has a sense of humor, I suspect.

Over the years I have found that no date will work until one "resonates" to the natals of both people. To get a good election, you have to tie it to their charts.

When I am looking for an election for anything I do some serious thinking about what moon phase I want first. That gives me a target time each month and I limit my search to that.

 My youngest daughter wanted a night wedding and I found a dandy time for her on an evening with the waxing moon in good aspect to a Venus/Jupiter conjunction. Unfortunately it was a Friday night and her prospective in-laws about had a cow. They have a large family and were convinced no one would come unless it was the traditional Saturday morning ceremony.

My daughter gulped and insisted on the night wedding and it was a blast. The ceremony was beautiful. As the two said their final vows and turned to face the congregation the setting sun poured in the corner window on them, surrounding them with a gorgeous natural spotlight just as if it had been planned. The whole family showed up, it was a great party at the reception (I drank wa--a-ay to much champagne) and my daughter wore out my wedding dress. She and her hubby danced so much half the seams needed re-doing but what the hell, nobody else needed the dress after that anyway.

They're still in love.

It was worth all the agony to get that date for them.

Pat replies,

First of all, the sign Libra has a heckuva lot more to do with the practice of law than Sagittarius. Lawsuits are a seventh house matter and lawyers are 7th house.

I think the misunderstanding about Sag. comes because it is the sign dealing with knowledge and learning and the theory of law.

Any higher institution of learning needs a strong Jupiter to be successful. A law school, IMO, needs a strong Venus as well. (Harvard is the top law school in the U.S.--I'd love to see their law school chart.)

There are several important rules to keep in mind.

Rule no. 1 in electional work is: use the correct phase of the moon.

No. 2, get the moon fortified as to sign, speed, aspects, etc., for success. Note: Some phases of the moon are more successful for some events than others. For instance: A wedding should be held during a rising or waxing moon phase. A house should be started and the foundation dug during the waning phase.

No. 3, Fortify the planet that naturally rules the event (Venus for marriage or Jupiter for institutions of higher learning). That means put it angular and/or in good aspect to the sun or other benefic.

No. 4, Keep the malefics out of the angles unless one rules the ascendant or the topic in question. Buying a house, for instance, comes under Saturn, natural ruler of real estate. Capricorn is the appropriate sign for this.

No. 5: Examine carefully the chart of the individual (or organization) who is beginning the project. If this chart is in trouble, NO, repeat NO electional chart can override it and be successful.

I know of a case of a woman who has twice started businesses with wonderful electional charts. Both failed because her natal chart was a disaster at those times. The election chart rests on the shoulders of the natal, so to speak. It does not have a separate existence.

Hope these rules help you.

Pat replies,
I was absolutely delighted to read about the law school placements.
Several things occurred to me about them.

1--Proper moon phase for something with deep roots and e long enduring "grounding" is the last waning days. Moon exalted in Taurus conjunct Venus for a law school? Yowee!

2--Sun and Mercury Rx in Gemini? Both Sag and Gemini are on the learning/teaching/publishing axis. Mercury R is often seen in the charts of those who have to think long and deeply before coming to a proper conclusion, but a Gemini sun is just fine with me to get all those wonderful other aspects. Secondary thought: If the actual date of incorporation was the outcome of long process, the Mercury R may have been necessary to "wind up" the work.

3--Mars and Jupiter both in own signs Aries and Sag--Excellent! The more planets one has in proper places, the stronger the chart. Especially the Sag Jupiter. The Venus and Mars stuff is why Harvard gets such wonderful endowments! (Venus, money, Mars, legacies, etc.)

I enjoyed this look back enormously and plan to run up the chart myself as soon as I finish this letter. But thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciated your work.

Pat replies,

The chart when you first began doing business is the key one. You already should have it--perhaps when you saw your first customer, or took your first order, etc.

The next charts you want should key to that one. Taking a new name? Tie into the MC of the original chart and get good aspects to it, or the ruler of it and/or planet in it.

Do the same thing with the 8th house for the IRS--you want NO malefics there and the ruler in good aspect to the owner/10th and if possible to the 2nd/income.

Take some time to hunt down your original chart. If it shows changes now, expansion (Jupiter aspects, perhaps) you know you have the right one. That's the business chart.

The best aspect for cataract surgery is to get the sun and moon in good aspect with each other and no bad aspects to anything else that day. Both eyes have sun/moon rulerships so that should be the goal.

> The male friend from England is a Chest Surgeon, who has to have a very delicate eye operation, which involves removing the fluid from his eye and replacing again afterwards. Sounds disgusting to me, and I don't want to know the details (tho' of course I can get them if needed). It is very, very important that this op is done right, because otherwise my friend will have to retire from work. His eyesight is crucial. He is, as you can understand, very worried.<

Now, your friend the surgeon has a special problem with his eyes, not a simple bit of cataract surgery. His chart also contains two yods, which are particularly difficult in health matters. I am using a simple solar chart with the noon positions.

 (For those who wonder why I use noon, it is because it is midway in the day and nothing will be very far from those positions. However, the solar chart itself puts the sun on the horizon and uses equal house.)

He is an Aquarian--14 degrees--with the moon in Gemini. His north node is at 6 degrees of Leo, conjunct Pluto at 7 Leo. This is in the area of the Ascelli, fixed stars which traditionally affect the eyesight. I know at least one Leo man who has become legally blind from developments as he has grown older who has his sun in this area. Your friend has these in the solar 6th house of health. Hence, they are going to do some really weird surgery to try to save his vision.

Unfortunately, from my perspective, he has a yod from Venus at 8 Cap to that Pluto at 7 Leo and Mars at 8 Gemini (hence the chest surgeon). Mars rules his solar house of career (it is also the natural ruler of surgeons, of course.) and is conjunct Uranus at 4 Gemini. This aspect alone indicates an unexpected alteration in his career pattern at some point in his life.

His 12th house Mercury is at 19 Cap, inconjunct Saturn at 19 Gemini and Jupiter at 23 Leo. The Jupiter is a tad wide, but the moon is also conjunct Saturn and I think the wide orbs of the moon and Jupiter act to narrow the gap. Thus, a second yod is operational in his birth pattern.

Also worrisome is Saturn which opposes his sun by simple solar arc this year. The sun is the right eye in men, and puts pressure on that eye particularly. The moon is the left eye. You did not specify which it is, but it looks like the right one from here, although a solar chart can be a fooler, once in a while.

There are a couple of good days for eye surgery in September.. The moon will be in Scorpio sextile the sun on Sept. 14, but Mars will be in 7 of Sag, opposing his natal Mars, sextile his Pluto and activating the yod. I do not recommend this day. The following week the moon will be in late Cap, trine the sun in late Virgo on the 20th. Mars that day will still be in Sag, but at 12. applying sextile to his sun. He natally has a sun trine Mars and probably a sun/moon trine, so I think using a date that echoes those favorable aspects may help him.

However, on the 20th, the surgery must be done EARLY in the morning to get the aspect, otherwise the moon will be void of course and the surgery will have to be done over or it will be put off or something.

By the way, this is not the waning phase of the moon. Since this is a removal and replacement kind of surgery I should think a waxing phase would work better.

Good luck to your friend and let us know how this comes out.

Pat replies,

The problem is your question, not what you want to know. First of all, there is a BIG difference between a horary chart and an election chart. You are NOT asking about a horary chart.

You want to set up a chart in advance for something that hasn't happened yet. That is an electional chart.

A horary chart asks a question. The chart is calculated for the time the question is asked. The answer is in THAT CHART. This is not what you want.

Now that we have gotten that straightened out, I will tell you what you want to know.
If you have your birth chart, haul it out and look at the ruler of your 3rd house of vehicles and any planets in it. Are they currently under any horrible stress? If so, wait until you can find a day when the afflictions are separating by at least a degree. If they are applying, you are walking into trouble. The best electional chart in the world won't fix that.

Next, get an ephemeris for the time when you want to order the car. This year? Next year? Etc.

Why do you want to do this? Because you are going to set up an electional chart for the time you order your car.

 Let's face it, every car rolling off every assembly line in the world is not necessarily as good as the one before or the one after. The people on the line have bad days. The machinery gets out of whack, or the tolerance gauge shifts during coffee breaks and nobody notices until an hour later and rather than stop the line (admitting they took too long on their break) they pass the bad pieces right on through. Some of the cars get bad pieces. Some are what we call "lemons." But when everything is working right, the company makes a cream puff. You want to set up your order so that when the car is made for you, it's one of those cream puffs.

You will choose a time or the month when Mercury--ruler of all transportation--is in good shape. You will never use a day when Mercury is debilitated, squared by anything, conjunct a malefic or retrograde (or near to going retrograde.) or too close to the sun unless it is Cazimi--in the heart of the sun (conjunct by 10 minutes or less).

You want to get the moon in good aspect to Mercury. You want the moon strong by sign (not in Cap or Scorpio), fast in motion (check the speed) and not afflicted in any other way.

If possible, get either Mercury or the moon also aspecting your third house ruler or planet/planets in it. That is double insurance. Make sure the aspect is applying if possible, but if not, at least making any bad aspect.

Set up the chart for the time of day that will hopefully put either mercury or the moon in or ruling the 3rd and the ruler of the first house (that's you) in good aspect to the ruler of the 2nd or at least not in bad aspect to it or any planets in the 2nd. The second is what you will spend on your cream puff.

If you can't get either mercury or the moon in or ruling the third at the absolute LEAST make sure that the ruler of the third is not afflicted by malefics.

Oh--final word. Use Saturn as ruler for Aquarius and Jupiter for Pisces.

Here are some of my ideas.
First decide what you want your organization to be: A comfortable group for pros to swap ideas and research and network? A mainstream outfit that works to upgrade professionalism and relates to the press whenever astrology comes up? A group to fight ignorance and foster education? A money making publisher of new works? What? If this is already part of your charter, you have your answer.

We have all of these in American astrology. Depending on what you want, the planets you might want to have prominent are: publishing/money making: Jupiter and Venus: networking and research, Mercury and Saturn (just the facts, ma'am); mainstream and education, Jupiter and Saturn and the moon.

You'll notice I didn't mention Uranus. I think Uranus too strong will undercut any group because it fosters so much individualism that "the group" doesn't benefit as much and the average astrologer already is about as individualistic as it comes.

For a chart, I'd consider a waxing phase of the moon in a good sign if you want growth and the social planets Jupiter and Saturn emphasized, in addition to Mercury. If public relations/money making is important, get Venus angular.

At all costs keep the malefics out of the angles, even if you have to sacrifice angularity for a benefic. Angular malefics bring down an organization faster than anything, I think. The first is the members, the 10th whom they elect to run the show, the 7th people who disagree and/or start competing groups and the fourth, the outcome of the effort.

Try to avoid having the first house ruled by a planet that is debilitated. Don't use Leo with the sun in Libra, for instance. Don't use a debilitated planet to rule any angle if you can avoid it.

If you can't get the moon applying to the planets you want, find a time when it doesn't make any bad aspects. A lunar application to a retrograde planet doesn't pay. Retrogrades promise more than they deliver.

These are the rules I would suggest.

Pat replies,

I took the time off the top of your posting and used your locale for the horary chart.

It gives 23 Sag rising with Neptune in Aquarius barely in the first house, retrograde, symbolizing your counseling work.

The third house is the house of paperwork, certificates and the like and it contains a retrograde Jupiter in Pisces, showing that you are a good counselor but the paperwork is held back. The moon at 22 Scorpio makes only two aspects before it leaves the sign: a trine to the retrograde Jupiter (which promises what it doesn't deliver) and a square to Mercury, also retrograde, which shows by the time you get it you won't want it.

My reading of the chart is that it would take nearly 5 years to get, you will have moved on by then and won't care. So much retrogradation in this chart (5 planets) including both Mercury, natural ruler of paperwork and
certification and your ruler Jupiter are indications of disappointment, but the clincher is Saturn in the 4, showing a long time before any resolution would come and then it would be a negative answer.

In short, I think the answer to your question is no, look for another line of work. The chart suggests to me you may return to some previous interest, so perhaps that is something to think about.

Hope this helps.