Subject: Re: Astro Discourse! Ascendant weighting
Pat replies:
The ascendant is the single most "personal" point in your chart. Think about this for a minute--everyone in the world born on your date has the same general set-up of planets--everyone born close to you in time probably has the same moon but only someone born exactly when and where you are has the same ascendant degree AND the same planet package. Others around the world can have the same rising degree but not the same planet package with it because that changes with time to suit their locale.
The ascendant is like the door you use to come on stage for this lifetime. It sets your "costume" --the physical equipment you are born with -- and points to which part of the "show" you will be in. If it is Cancer rising, you will have a different "role" than if it is Aquarius rising.
The sun sign describes the "you" that you become more fully with every passing year and the moon as the way you start out in life: your childhood, your sense impressions, your emotional package, your family relationships, etc. Many children start out as timid, fearful people (Capricorn moon, for instance) who become strong, self-assertive adults (Leo sun, for instance). However, the Leo sun person has developed a different "overlay" with a sensible, practical, conservative Capricorn flair than if there were a breezy, optimistic, easy-come-easy-go Sagittarian moon.
But the ones who come through the Gemini (rising) stage door will have different roles to play in life than the ones who come through the Taurus (ascendant) door. The ascendant shows, I think, what area in life will be an important function for you to develop and how you will do that. Virgo rising will have a health/efficiency/work and 6th/house focus that will be there regardless of the sun or moon. Something about all that will be crucial. Also, the body will have a "Virgo" look and the "costume" for the show will be practical and quiet, rather than loud and impulsive as if Aries were rising.
Taurus rising will be born with charm. Money --the lack or the abundance of it--will be important. Look at Michael Jordan, the basketball star. The Aquarian sun man is called "his Airness" and he set a fabulous record in his sport. But it is his huge moneymaking ability that set a new standard for athletes and endorsement earnings. He was single-handedly credited with causing the stocks of companies that use him to rise and fall depending on what he did. And you'd better believe that he will use all the money he has made to make a lot more of it. He is already planning to buy half a basketball team. That could cost him $150 million. He made $45 mill last year and with Taurus rising, you KNOW he has plenty stashed to use.
I'll be he's got a credit rating so gold it would blind you. Anyway, I was watching one of his commercials on TV this morning while I was drinking my coffee thinking what a classic Taurus-rising he is.
Anyway, hope this helps. A lot of people will give you ideas. Save them all and look at a lot of charts and lives and you will see how it works for yourself.
Good Luck....
More on Ascendants.. UGLY
Forrest Gump said it best: Life is like a box of chocolates.
And so is ugly. There are all different kinds of ugly. And you never know what you'll get.
When it comes to ascendants, let's talk. The rising sign has a ruler and if that ruler is afflicted or in a sign that is not compatible, the rising sign will not manifest well, meaning in an attractive way.
Sag rising for instance usually gives a clear, open face and strong, well proportioned body. What if Jupiter is debilitated in Virgo, for instance, square the ascendant? You may get a gangly, awkward body and a horse face with long teeth that is not particularly attractive. It can run to hump backs and stoop shoulders.
But that package might also produce a well meaning, rather clumsy person devoted to helping others who sort of lights up from the inside and presto, the longer you know them, the "prettier" they get.
Let's have some fun for a minute and think about the worst.
Pisces rising can give you the person who lacks a chin, or has the wide, almost blubbery fish-mouth look. It can give bug eyes as well as pasty skin and soft body.
Aries rising gone sour? Eyes too close together, skimpy, scraggly hair and/or beard and a nose only a mother could love. Cavernous cheeks, missing teeth, and slope shouldered.
Taurus--excessive hair, double chins, no-neck, googly eyes or a piggy-looking face with beady eyes. A sausage tied in the middle.
Gemini--case of the squints, a nose that wanders, peculiar ears that stick out, bad teeth and a sly, crooked expression. Knockneed.
Cancer--Fat face, big boobs down to the knees in the women and downright noticeable in the men, bellies out to wherever and thin, disapproving lips. Big Adams apples and vacant, staring eyes.
Leo--harsh appearance, like a scarecrow with bulimia, rat face with sharp teeth, or teeth all rotten and bad skin. Limps and wears padding everywhere to look normal. Or goes the other direction and weighs 400 pounds in grade school and has terminal acne.
Virgo--Ski nose, bean pole body, huge ears, unmanageable hair, skinny body or one with no waist, flat busted in women and no shoulders in the men. Small pot bellies.
Libra--Good ankles and that's it. Everything else is misshapen and out of proportion. Head on you can see the eyes don't match, one side of the face goes up, and one down, the too-small mouth is hidden by pouting cheeks, the skin is pitted and baldness follows puberty by about 6 months. The nose is too large.
Scorpio --looks suspicious just standing there--sullen, with low hairline, primitive, apelike appearance and protruding bone over the eyebrow line. Hands like claws, arms too long, big hips or flat butt, lips look too wet, eyes peer out from under heavy eyebrows that grow together and the jaw is wide. Teeth don't come together right.
Capricorn--scrawny and ill-shaped, little hair and that unmanageable, crooked face and limbs, sway backed and bad complexion. Bunions and flat feet. Buck teeth.
Aquarius--funny colored skin, hands too big, feet too small, gaunt cheeks, owl eyes, perpetual sweats, freckles and pimples.
Is this awful enough? I had some fun here thinking about how bad it could be. Luckily most of us don't get the worst. On the other hand, people who find us delightful company ignore even the worst appearance. We are all beautiful on the inside if we choose to be.
And sooner or later the inside shows on the outside.
Somebody once said that at 20 we have the face God gave us, at 30, the one we are making for ourselves and at 40, the one we deserve.
More on Ascendants..
Subject: Re: Pisces puss - Greenspan Birth Data - no time
Pat replies,
This is not my best expertise, but Alan Greenspan looks SOOO Piscean I couldn't help it. Some do--some don't. I can't promise to be perfect if you're too pretty. It will confuse me.
A tip off is often the profile. Aquarians usually have pretty classic looking profiles and Pisces (particularly Pisces rising) will have a lack of chin, or sometimes a double chin. Remember Don Knots who played the guy who became a fish in Mr. Limpet? If ever I saw a Pisces walking it's Don Knots. He also played the deputy in Mayberry.
When he'd get excited his head would pop forward and his eyes would bug out and sohelpmeGawd he looked like things I have taken off hooks with worms in their mouths.
More on ascendants
Pat says,
One of the things that may help pinpoint this is noting physical characteristics. Dental problems or back trouble are common with Leo rising, but allergies (Hay fever or hives from some food) often show up with Virgorising. Virgo rising usually has good teeth.
Virgo rising tends to look younger than it is and keeps its hair as a rule among the men. Leo rising women may comb hair straight back without a part and wear it in a large "mane" where Virgo rising likes it parted, under
control and neat. Naturally curly hair and high arched, pretty feet also show up with Virgo rising. The body is average to slightly under in height and looks youthful and compact. Leo rising is taller and has strong, straight
shoulders and slim hips.
Leo rising women use lots of cosmetics, particularly as they grow older. Virgo rising wants them hypo allergenic and tends to simplify with age.
Jewelry is usually a dead giveaway if all else fails. Leo rising is the gold lover and the women adore adornment, often big, or dramatic in style. Virgo rising likes tiny, neat earrings and "unobtrusive" jewelry. It prefers a
simple look.
Maybe this will help a bit.
More on ascendants,
Subject: Re: 29 or 0 degrees rising
Pat replies,
I know--you never hear about all the dental problems and broken bones Leo gets. It never fails to amaze me.
I do not know a Leo sun or ascendant without some of these. After I realized how many Leos had major teeth problems or broken arms or bone damage of one sort or another I began to ask why.
The clue is the solar set-up for Leo which puts Capricorn on the 6th. Saturn deals with bones and teeth.
One of the things we have to watch is the similarity between the solar or natural houses for a sun sign and the natal pattern which puts a sign on the ascendant. Often a Leo rising will have Cap on 6, for instance. Sometimes not, but usually. Even if it turns out to be Aquarius, which also has a powerful Saturn input, you may find it. However, the Aquarius/Leo polarity will tend more to the circulatory problems--artery hardening, varicose veins, etc.
There is so much Leo (suns, moons or ascendants) in my family I have been fascinated by it. They manage to drag in more Leo influence by marrying it, too, so I have had plenty to watch.
With the sun sign there is always a polarity operating, which is why Aquarians sometimes pick up on Leo problems and vice versa, but you don't get that with the sign on the ascendant. The polarity, of course, comes from the fact that the earth actually occupies the sign opposite the sun at birth. It's why Caps work so hard at a nice home and Cancers chase around doing community service, for instance.
Whenever you think about what affects a sun sign or a rising sign, keep that 6th house in mind. It is a big help to analysis. Also, watch what aspects the ascendant. That's another thing people tend to overlook and I have found it a big flashing light, particularly on the physical level.
More on Ascendants..
Subject: Re: Scorpio rising
In my opinion, the outer planets--Uranus, Neptune and Pluto--do NOT function the same way as the traditional rulers and we haven't observed any of them long enough (sorry, all you who disagree on this issue) to establish anything like exaltations and falls, either.
I grant you that some people seem to express qualities we attribute to these planets, but for most work I use the traditional rulers as the base and the outer planets as very secondary, supplementary influences.
This is particularly important in horary unless we get a question about specific thing which we consider ruled by an outer planet. Something like nuclear plants (Pluto), or airlines (Uranus) or dirigibles (Neptune).
I'm a meat and potatoes astrologer and I don't like to make dumb mistakes. I will always interpret using traditional rulers for health, for instance, and be correct. Not so with the outer planets.
I think the lack of accuracy you get using them is discouraging to a lot of inexperienced astrologers and can make them think the "rules" don't work. They do, but you can't bend them to include the outer planets in all cases.
Subject: Re: A question of career strength and the midheaven
Neptune ALONE on the MC does not give musical careers. What it does seem to give is a Neptunian career. Ditto Uranus.
I have charts of two nurses with just Neptune on the MC. I have a postal clerk and a secretary for the Navy offices near here, both with Uranus on the MC. I have a doctor with a Mars/Neptune on the MC. Those are just a few that come to mind quickly.
I must mention that Clinton has a MARS, VENUS, NEPTUNE conjunction rising. I think the Venus/Neptune is the music connection. The Mars/Neptune is movement. He probably is a good dancer, but I can't recall seeing a news clip of him doing it. However, we see a lot of clips of him running to get some fast food. (Mars is also appetite and Neptune is secrecy, and I know, I know, don't go there...)Or at least, we used to see it before he hurt his knee.
It's back to the old axiom: It needs a complete pattern to forecast a musical career.
continuing..
I don't think Pisces alone gives musical ability. You have to look at Venus, in my opinion. It is Taurus that rules the "ear" and the throat, which produce song and tone. Venus is the planet of harmony.
Now an angular Venus does not produce music alone. Neptune aspects often bring out the artistic, but again, not necessarily music. I think of one chart with them angular and it belongs to a man who ran an art school. Another Venus/Neptune person creates jewelry. Another angular Venus is a hairdresser. One of my friends is a former dancer/pianist with angular Venus. She also has a strong Mars.
My youngest daughter trained in karate and did power lifting. She took a modern dance class in college and the teacher went nuts at her flexibility and control, but my daughter found dance boring and went back to punching. Mars conjunct Pluto and Uranus trine the ascendant, Venus cadent. (Now she's a nurse.)
Charts of gymnasts usually show Mars/Pluto aspects for flexibility. Mars/Saturn gives good coordination for the body and either combination helps with dance if Venus is strong. The feet are Pisces, all right, and ballet seems to be particularly Piscean. Many ballet dancers are small people with foot problems and must be extremely careful with toe shoes.
For musical instrumentation, look to Mercury. All the wind instruments require fingering ability and air--that's Mercury. Guitars and pianos also need Mercury. Harps and stringed instruments are particularly Neptunian, in combination with Venus. I have the chart of a young man who plays a stringed instrument, went to college to get a degree in music and has never earned a dime with it. He has Uranus in 10--a dead giveaway to a government job, and his Neptune is retrograde and squares it. He's got a civil service job, but it isn't music.
He has tried 16 ways from Sunday to have a musical career and there just ain't no way. Not with his chart. He keeps making noises about teaching kids music but I still don't think he's even done that.
Libra Venus is much less musical than a Taurus Venus. Libra is more the appreciator than the producer, in my experience. I have the charts of a couple rock types with angular Neptunes, sun in Aquarius or Taurus, Venus fairly strong.
I never expect to see Leo suns for performers, but occasionally one shows up. Most Leos want to play something and will take lessons at some time in life, but I don't think it's a particularly musical sign. Pisces can be so creative, it often produces artistic wonders.
The late Pisces chairman of the board at the newspaper where I worked until I retired adored music and was a heavy patron of the Oberlin Conservatory. He funded musical scholarships, and bought his church a magnificent organ and when he died left the county his fantastic gardens which are acres of flowers and beauty which had been a lifelong labor of love. I don't know if he played the organ at all, although he may have.
Oh--remember my daughter and karate? Her teacher, a Pisces whose toes are all scrunchy from bouts as a young man, also plays the organ for his church.
Now, to get a musical CAREER, the 10th house must indicate artistic endeavor. The second house must show money earned from it. Otherwise you get one of these other things. A moon/Venus conjunction? Woman is a decorator, etc., not musical at all, though she sees "harmony" in another way.
I think you almost have to link Venus with Neptune and the 10th as well as Mercury for voice and instruments and usually Uranus and Mars/Pluto if it is dance.
Hope this helps a bit.
More on music careers
Hmmm--Jupiter in 10 is often the mark of the publisher, editor or even teacher. I am a retired journalist and I have it. (Have done a bit of teaching here and there, too.) I knew a lot of copy editors and most had angular Jupiters--some in Libra.
Now, when you add the Venus, I suspect it could incline toward musical publishing, but my big caveat is that we CAN'T use just a couple planets in a couple of places to show a musical career or any other kind.
It still takes a whole pattern.
More on Chart interpretation; Career Strengths and midheaven.
Subject: Re: Nonagesimal
> This is something I haven't learned about yet. I have Sun, Pluto, Venus at this point in my chart. Is it looked at in a similar way to a last quarter phase but in regards to the ascendant? >
Yes, that's one of the ways to see it. I think the nonagesimal is more a personal point of accomplishment than the MC, which has to do with how we fit into the broader community (the world, if you like).
For instance, when Saturn crosses the nonagesimal, we are at a peak of personal status, money making, accomplishment. It's a time of feeling good about yourself.
When Saturn crosses the MC it often brings added responsibility as the community assesses us and sees what we ought to be doing. For people who have been doing what they shouldn't, this is karma time, bigtime.
But it can just as easily bring the Presidency to a candidate--the "responsibility" business.
Saturn across the MC usually comes when "the company" we work for is in trouble and "needs" us. The rewards of doing what is needed comes later but with Saturn, it always comes.
Saturn to the nonagesimal seems to say: See what you can do when you try? Aren't you proud of yourself? Look around, this is the place you worked so hard to reach. The nonagesimal point is personal ambition, desire, self-focus, which may have nothing to do with the broader, community-oriented issues of the MC.
The MC is specifically career. The nonagesimal may have to do with intensely private activity.
The nonagesimal --like all equal house, equal sign charts-- relates directly to the ascendant, since it is the one absolute point of the horoscope. It also shows what we are willing to do to reach personal goals, etc., and our hidden motivations and ambitions.
Saturn crossing that point, or its opposite, which is in stress aspect to the ascendant says: Are you ready for a break? Getting tired? Taking care of yourself? Eating your veggies? Getting exercise?
Watch transits to the nonagesimal. See for yourself. Any major transit will have enough punch for you to register what it involves if you watch a bit.
Just remember that it won't act in the same way as the MC, which dumps us out into the open for our "public persona." If they are close to each other, or in the same sign, they may appear to work alike. They don't. Watch a lot of charts and you'll see what I mean.
More on chart interpretation.
Subject: Ten rules for astrologers
That's what I used to tell all my beginning students. It's Rule No.1 in astrology.
Rule No. 2 is: Nothing is as good or as bad as you think it will be.
Rule No. 3 is forecast conservatively--it's better than looking like a complete fool when you're half-wrong.
Rule No. 4: Study love, money and health issues. If you become a professional, 99 percent of your clients will want information on them. If you stay an amateur, it's probably what you want to know. The rest is frosting.
Rule No. 5: Don't take your transits to heart. The word transit means passing on by.
Rule No. 6: Pay attention to the old timers. They're the ones who taught the astrologers that you think are wonderful.
Rule No. 7: Take astrology seriously. Don't give away what you know too cheaply--it cost you plenty to learn it. Charge a fair price if you charge.
Rule No. 8: Keep your mouth shut. Don't talk about what your clients tell you and what is confidential information. Before long, nobody will tell you anything and you will stop learning.
Rule No. 9: Half the time your clients just need somebody to talk to. Listen. Most of them will solve their own problems if they get a little moral support from you. They probably don't need a forecast as much as the handholding.
Rule No. 10: Share what you know with others trying to learn. It keeps astrology vital into the future. It is your gift to the world.
Some years ago I taught classes on astrology at the local community college and one of the students in my beginning course said she wanted to get through the three courses I offered as fast as possible since she wanted to be a professional astrologer. She told me it looked like a good way to make money.
Long before the three courses were over, she told me she thought it would take her a bit longer to be ready to do it professionally because there was so much to learn.
She attended classes a couple more years, as a matter of fact, but to date has still never become professional. The more she found out, the more worried she became about the responsibility she would be taking on.
I think it is wonderful that you are learning astrology. I think it is great you are already thinking in terms of making this your life work. But --there's always a "but," isn't there?
The problem is taking money for what you do. Once you do that, you tell the world you know what you're doing and you can handle the karmic load that comes along with offering to tamper with someone's life.
That is a heavy thing.
As long as you have "amateur" status--meaning, you don't take money--you can read all the charts you like for as many people as you like and get them to tell you how you're doing with accuracy and offer as much counsel as you want to and it is all part of the learning process. If you are in college and studying psychology, it can add richness to your knowledge.
I, too, am a self-taught astrologer. I spent many many hours hunched over the math calculations in the days before computers. You can attain a high degree of accuracy that way if you work on it. I did, and it was hard work, but worth it.
The way I "trained" was to do just what I suggest you do: Read for tons of people you don't know or don't know well, tell them you are learning, get them to give you good feedback and consider yourself well paid with that knowledge. Don't take money yet.
Give yourself time to learn your craft well. Astrology is a craft in a sense that can be learned by anyone who devotes time and effort to the learning. Yes, some of us have a better feel for it than others, but anyone can learn.
You wouldn't eat pizza with bread that is half cooked. A good astrologer takes a bit of time to season, in my opinion. Find a few teachers--try them all. If you really want to learn, you will learn from everybody in the field.
When you are ready to be a "professional" it will be to start a career you can take pride in and approach with a sense of responsibility and satisfaction. It is a wonderful thing to be able to help people.
But the doctor who takes up a scalpel before he is ready can also hurt. And that's the first rule in medicine: "First, do no harm."
It's a good one for our profession, too.
More on chart interpretation for the client..
Subject: Re: When is enough, enough? Virgos Anonymous
Pat replies:
Yep, educating the public is a big temptation, and when I find myself sounding that way, I stop immediately and get back to business.
An old astrologer I knew when I first started doing charts in the early 70s told me to focus on those issues because that's what most of your clients really want to know. So I can't claim the advice is original.
Besides, if the rare occasional oddball actually asks you about their spiritual purpose in life or the meaning of their Jupiter Saturn square it will come as a delightful surprise and you won't swamp them with rhetoric when you answer.
As a teacher I have to remember my dad's first advice about talking too much: The mind can only absorb what the seat can endure. That goes double for clients.
Good luck.
More on chart interpretation; professionalism
Subject: Re: Ethics in Astrology
>> You are correct when you say I am concerned with truth and justice. Furthermore, I am also equally concerned with the right to privacy, attorney-confessor-astrologer-psychologist/client privilege in the real world.
I understand that these ethics must exist because people are afraid, ashamed, apprehensive and often very frightened of the truth. No, not the truth, but of other people's judgement of them because of some mistake or error in nature, or some bad faith action that was taken in the past. >>
Pat replies,
I read your rationale for more openness in human affairs and I agree with you --in principle. But then, the idea that in a perfect society, no one is greedy and every one shares the resources is one I could agree with, too--in principle.
The problem is that we are discussing in practical terms our own personal ethics in our dealings with other people who pay us money to help them. My ethics concern only me and my actions--not those of the gangbanger and his drugs, or anyone else.
I must tell you that I grew up a Catholic, a religion in which priests vow to keep forever private whatever is told to them in confession. Some have actually been tortured to death over the centuries on this issue. Even the law today in the U.S. recognizes the confidentiality between priest and penitent, just as it recognizes the confidentiality between lawyer and client or doctor and patient. It is necessary if there is to be truth between the one who needs help and the person who offers to aid them.
I am also a retired journalist, and many journalists have gone to prison over the issue of confidentiality and protection of sources so that people can speak the truth to them without fear of reprisal. Some have died in places like Latin America where truth is dangerous. Many of the "disappeared" under totalitarian regimes were journalists.
As an astrologer, I have told my clients that what they tell me stays in the room. I don't repeat it. If they couldn't trust me to mean that, they wouldn't feel comfortable pouring out their heart, telling me about their pains, their fears, their griefs.
The truth is not something "out there" in some far away world to be "worked toward." Truth is something here and now, that we live with and live by if we wish to be whole as human beings. It is who we are.
If someone asked me for a good day to commit a murder, I wouldn't do that kind of astrology. There is no good day for that. If someone who asks for a reading is a drug dealer and is open with me, I would counsel him or her against such a career choice (this actually happened to me once), but I wouldn't tell anyone else. Their choices will boomerang on them without my aid. (the dealer in question was busted later on a federal charge and spent many years in prison). This is the deal: I take your money, I keep your secrets. It's an implied contract.
We make many such implicit contracts in our lives. Take the one many of us make with employers: I give you a fair day's work for a fair day's pay.
Or the deal we make with the TV repair man: You fix my set, I give you money.
These are simple examples, but truth is a simple thing. Integrity is keeping your word. Confidentiality between client and astrologer is vital to both.
More on chart interpretation.
I'm going to suggest a few things that may help you. Take out a new birth chart and begin.
1) Write down one sentence that describes this person. Think about what you know of sun, moon and ascendant and use them as your basis for the sentence. The sentence can't be any longer than you can read aloud in one breath. No 400-word monsters allowed.
2) Write down a second sentence on this person's biggest problem in life. Think about the squares and which one is the tightest--or the opposition that is the closest, if there are no squares. Same restriction on length.
3) Write one sentence on the current worst problem. Think about transiting Saturn.
Now, by forcing yourself to set a priority list this way, you will begin to do what Virgos find hardest: synthesize, or put it together. The Virgo strength is taking it apart and I think it makes "doing" a chart difficult. But it can be done. You just have to stretch yourself.
<< it seems that everyone I know wants me to DO their charts and I can't. (What in the heck is DO my chart anyway? Nothing specific just DO it.) I have tried, believe me. The result is either one of two things. Either their eyes start to glaze over after 2 hours and I am still on their sun or (when I tried to type an interpretation out to cut down on the discussion) I never finish because I am not writing an interpretation I am writing a book of their chart complete with an entire beginners course in Astrology. (Don't even get me started on progressions, transits, and solar arcs) >>
Pardon me if I giggle, but I have heard this problem before and I always snicker. Shame on me, I know, but it tickles my funny bone.
Here's how to read one.
1) Time yourself. You have one hour flat. Divide the chart into three areas: Love, Money and Health. You get 15 minutes each to talk about the subjects from the natal point of view and the current outlook for the year ahead. The last 15 minutes is for questions. Don't gasp. It gets worse.
2) Write down a few key words to help you tell the person about each area. Your client DOES NOT WANT TO KNOW about the meaning of their sun or moon. They do want to know about their marriage or their love affair or their kids, how their job is going and when or if they will get a raise and about their health or lack of it.
3) Practice with a tape recorder talking about one of the three areas I mentioned. When you can do it in 15 minutes, start another. Remember, that when it comes to really reading the chart to a person, your enthusiasm will probably run away with you, but if you have a "15-minute clock" in your head, you won't do much more than 20 minutes without shifting topics.
4) Recognize that what I am giving you is like a chastity belt: It won't stop you from getting into trouble, but it will make you uncomfortable enough to do something about it before you wreck the project.
5) I have given you an unduly restrictive regimen for a reason. Yes, you can spend more time if you wish. Yes, you can tell people about their sun or moon IF THEY WISH, but you need the discipline of practicing within a tight time limit to force your brain to synthesize.
Back in my days as an editor, I often had to tell reporters to sum up their story in a "nut" paragraph, so that people knew what they were about to read. This is tough for beginners and a lot of reporters are Virgos, surprisingly enough. Learning this trick made better reporters.
More on ethics..
Subject: Re: Moral Dilemma-Responsibility of Astrologers
Pat replies,
I posted an article on the ethics of astrology on Zodiacal Zephyr, http://www.zodiacal.com which you may want to consider, but I would like to give you a few thoughts in addition to what I said there.
The limit of anyone's responsibility is "opportunity" and "ability." You used your ability to the best you could when you had the opportunity to speak to this man. You have neither the ability to tell his lover nor any opportunity to do so now. Therefore, your "responsibility" has ended. You may grieve over this, I know, but there is nothing more you can do. It is out of your hands.
It is at this point that one must let go and let God--or the Universe--manage the situation. The most any one can do must be to pray for both people--the one who is doing the injuring through his own selfishness and the one who may be injured.
I believe things happen for a reason, and perhaps your part in the drama has been played. Think of it this way: You planted seeds they may work on that man's subconscious. He may yet try to do the right thing.
If you wish to be of genuine service to your fellow man, I will tell you a secret. You must be like an apple tree, there for every hungry passerby. Let the apples fall and don't worry about what becomes of them. You will have done your job if you make the apples.
A tree that tries to do anything else fails of its mission. You have other tasks ahead if you would do good for others. Don't become preoccupied with this one, or think you have failed. Put it in God's hands and go on.
More on chart interpretation..
Subject: Re: Astro Discourse! ASC weighting
Pat replies:
One of the problems every student in astrology runs into is why I have always taught ONE RULE first. Every class and every student needs to know it. It is astrology's fundamental basic, rock-bottom principle. Ready?
Here it is--write it on your forehead in big gold letters--
EVERYTHING MODIFIES EVERYTHING ELSE.
In order to learn astrology you have to learn how planets and signs function as if they were there all by their lonesome. When you learn a little more, you realize that they almost never are all by themselves, but linked in such a way that they affect each other.
Your are both right and wrong in your thinking--the principle is correct but the student --you-- is beginning to see how nothing is "pure" and is affected by other factors.
Hooray! You are learning.
The ascendant still determines your physical body but now you are asking how planets there modify the basic costume. It's like taking a blue dress. The world is full of blue dresses. We need to know: casual, dressy, two piece, long sleeve or short, a-line, empire, etc., etc. All the modifiers are the planets and the rest of the chart.
But it is still a "blue dress."
OK?
More on chart interpretation..
Subject: Re: Astro101 re: Mercury
Pat replies,
The moon has a great deal to do with sense impressions--all of the senses. It is the senses that allow us to perceive what is going on. Defective vision, for instance, can affect learning. Ask any child who can't see the black board in class.
Mercury processes the information. It does not tell us what we process. People with stationary Mercury at birth process it with lightning speed and are often very witty as a result. Mercury retrogrades apparently process information more slowly than direct types but they seem to do it more deeply and thoughtfully.
During a lifetime, many of us experience periods when progressed Mercury changes direction and we may begin or end times of intense study, for instance, that lasts many years.
The sign Mercury is in, the aspects it receives, the ruler of the third and any planet in it and the moon therefore are ALL needed to assess learning abilities.
If the moon was in fast motion and Mercury was slow (near a station), the mind is very quick. If Mercury was fast and the moon was slow, the mind is deeper, not so quick. If both are fast or both slow, it tends to give average processing ability.
Mercury in air signs is the most logical and processes information gained from other people the most readily. Mercury in the fire signs likes experiential knowledge (they're the hands-on types). They like to learn from doing. Earth sign Mercurys are the most orderly and structured. Give them a manual of instruction. Water sign Mercurys take all kinds of mental leaps and make intuitive connections.
These general ways of functioning can be sharply modified by the third house and or other factors. If you have a Gemini sun, you will always have SOME quickness even if the Mercury is afflicted by slow-boat Saturn and located in slow-as-glue Taurus. Virgo moons will always exhibit some type of orderly mental process. A lot of air in the chart is mental, no matter what else is going on. An active third house is an active mind.
Capricorn Mercury wants information that is true, reliable and can be proven. It does not like wishy-washy stuff that floats around in the air (spoken or heard). It likes a manual or a book. It wants to be able to find the same information again in the same words on the same page and be able to make sure it's still there.
It's all part of the cautious nature of the sign.
More on chart interpretation..
Subject: Re: astrology & reincarnation
Over the years, I never taught students to use any esoteric idea to explain anything in the chart. I have been asked about this many times, but the key to me is this: ANYTHING in the chart can be quite adequately understood in terms of this lifetime along. Anything in the chart can refer to events from the here and now.
I don't discount the notion of reincarnation at all. I don't discount the idea of karma, or darma or any other esoteric, Buddhist, Hindu or New Age ideas. I just don't use them to explain about astrology.
Astrology can stand on its own, thank you very much.
Take the nodes, for instance. I see a lot of people on here talk about their aspects as referring to spiritual or destiny stuff from past lives. To this I can only say, Maybe.
But what is absolutely sure about the nodes is how they work in this life to explain relationships, their quality and stresses and enduring possibilities. And relationships may or may not come out of the past.
I just use what is in the here and now and leave the other stuff out of my analyses. It's a lot more useful, I think. Besides, it forces me to learn how things work NOW, not in some (maybe true but impossible to prove) past.
More on chart interpretation, dispositors.
Pat replies,
Simple principle. The moon rules or "owns" Cancer. Any other planet there is either a guest (like Mercury) or an honored visitor (Jupiter) or an undesirable visitor (Mars or Saturn). Therefore the moon, just like a landlord, is said to deposit (outrank) any visitor at all. The moon owns the property.
This is why rulership is important. It establishes rank.
Jupiter is "exalted" in Cancer (honored visitor--drag out the best china and chill that $50 bottle of wine.) Saturn is debilitated there (it rules the opposite sign, Capricorn) and Mars is in its fall there (it is said to be exalted in Cap). Therefore, serve hot dogs and beans and use paper plates and hope the hell they leave soon, right?
These things are pretty simple when you understand the principle.
Now, one of the big problems in our high-tech era, where new asteroids and comets and planets are coming out of the woodwork every other week, is to figure out where they all "belong."
We have had Uranus around since the start of the Industrial Revolution. It wasn't too hard to give it a high tech slant and see that it "obviously" belongs to Aquarius, the sign of inventions and science. So, there is a lot of general acceptance of this one.
Neptune came along quite a bit later, but as soon as Neptune showed up the world was full of "mystic wonders" and spiritualism and was quickly assumed to belong to Pisces, which everybody knows is the only place for a ditzy planet, right? It's been studied for well more than 100 years.
Now Pluto pops up--in Cancer, yet--in the '30s and women march off to the factories en masse, simultaneously altering the balance of family power, as the world launches WWII and eventually the nuclear age. There is pretty much agreement that nuclear energy is Pluto's department (hence the Power business--the first folks with "the bomb" held the clout in world affairs.). Wasn't too long after all that before the feminist movement exploded as women refused to surrender their own power, heading off to the job market again and the power of the paycheck, along with independence and personal determination.
So we have two signs suggested--Aries and Pluto. While some still try to attribute Pluto to Aries, most of us in the last 45 years have concluded that Aries is too simplistic for the kind of power/control issues that Scorpio can manage quite well. We shove Pluto's rulership into Scorpio's hands.
Along come asteroids. We get Juno, Vesta, Pallas, Ceres. The rush is on to find them a slot. Virgo? Libra? Oops, now we've got Chiron. Where the heck does that one go?
This thing is getting out hand. We are naming asteroids right and left. We have comets roaring into the system. (Gee, what sign rules comets?)
Astrologers are creatures of custom like everybody else. We want to put things where we think they belong so we can get a handle on them. But the big question is, are we right?
I don't know, to tell you the truth.
Personally, I use the so-called "old rulers" far more than the outer planets in the vast majority of my work. I get straighter answers.
Yes, there are times when a question or a topic obviously belongs to Uranus or Neptune or Pluto, but does that mean they "rule" a sign or just "rule" certain affairs only? Are they outside the whole rulership business? Acting more like traveling meter readers to all the signs?
Beats me. I still have an open mind on the question, though I tend to go along with the majority on the Scorpio/Aquarius/Pisces co-rulership idea.
But just because you get married and share the deed to the house with the new spouse doesn't mean you are any less the owner. I still use Mars, Saturn and Jupiter for Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces.
Whew--all that for the dispositorship business. But I had to get a little extensive to explain it all.
More on chart interpretation - Sun/Moon midpoint
Subject: Re: synastric midpoints/aspects
Pat replies,
I am not a big midpoint user but there is one that I use heavily because it provides so much insight into human relationships. This one is the sun/moon midpoint.
I have found that it works like a door to your house. Any person who has a planet conjunct that spot finds the front door always open and can walk right in. They instinctively understand you and seldom make mistakes about your motivations. Benefics here are wonderful. Malefics are tough--they are like unpleasant relatives that you can't avoid.
Oppositions to the sun/moon midpoint are more like an open back door--people who have benefic planets seem to sort of pop in when you aren't looking and bring cookies. People who have malefics here blindside you and eat the cookies themselves.
ANY planet conjunct or opposite this spot has power to heal or hurt but always "gets to you."
Contacts to this point always explain (to me, anyway) why you never have to explain yourself to some people and others never understand where you're coming from.
More on chart interpretation - derived houses
Pat replies,
To find the houses of your brothers (if you have any) and sisters, you step out of the lineup and give them numbers--1 is the oldest, 2, the next oldest, 3 is after that, etc.
You do NOT count yourself.
The oldest, as you say, is house 3. No. 2 sibling is house 5, and no. 3 sibling is house 7. If there are more, they go around the chart every other house--9, 11, 1, and back to 3 if you have 7 or more.
To find the child of one of your siblings, go to the house of that brother or sister (house 5, in your case) and count to the fifth house from the fifth. House 5 becomes that sister's first, your house 6 becomes that sister's 2nd, and your house 9 becomes the house of your sister's oldest child. If she has another child, you skip a house and use your house 11 for her second child.
This sounds more complicated than it is, but it does help to read this carefully and write it out on a blank chart until you get the hang of it. It's really just simple counting.
I have occasionally used this system for lectures (The title was "What About My Sister's Dog?") and people find it quite helpful. The first time I did it, the dog in the chart of one of the people in the audience showed up as a Mars/Pluto beast and everybody in the family was convinced the dog was unmanageable. They wanted that animal in a cage NOW. Pretty funny lecture.
More on Chart Interpretation --Derivative Houses
Pat replies,
Unlike you, however, I use a slightly different derived house system. For moms, I use the fourth house as the first child. Only dads get the fifth for the first house. For this reason: No matter whatever else happens in life, when a woman has her first child the whole basis on which she operates changes. The fourth house symbolizes all that we count as the grounding of our lives and unlike fatherhood--which in some cases barely gets noticed--motherhood alters one's very body and attitudes in life.
Even in nature, the mother defending her young is a far different opponent than a father defending the family. Large animals will back down from very small moms rather than take the grief.
OK, guys, I know that it doesn't apply to every dad and there are some who would be quite as ferocious in defense, but think about how men talk about their kids--take that familiar " chip off the old block" expression for
instance. That says "like me" or expressing my qualities--and that's the fifth house.
You don't hear women referring to their children as expressing "my" qualities or being "like me." Au contraire--they see their kids as adorable because they are different and unique specimens in their own right.
Women don't make crucial decisions without considering their children as a rule. "If I leave my job at the grocery store around the corner, how will Jimmy find me when he needs to get in the house after school? If I take the
job at the store across town, he's going to be upset and what if something happens and he needs me and I'll be worried sick if he doesn't call me and and and..."
This is typical fem thinking but men usually don't do it. They think about the job first ("Gee, I'd make a lot more money over there") and only later--"Oh well, we'll figure something out for Jimmy."
The seventh house in any chart I use for strangers. I have seen Pluto transits to the 7th cusp repeatedly show crime events. One woman had a purse and money taken three times as Pluto retrograded back and forth.
More on Professionalism and Chart Interpretation..
Subject: Re: The Role of Astrologers
Pat replies,
These are all good points. I agree that it is not necessary for the client to tell me anything confidential for me to be able to tell him or her something useful. Not all astrologers are trained as counselors, but I think as professionals, it wouldn't hurt us a bit, frankly.
And I sure don't charge $100 an hour. But there has been an increasing movement in modern astrology for highly trained pros to charge market prices for their skill and get over the "poverty" mentality. I think that goes along with the move to greater professionalism among astrologers. If my colleagues with a high degree of skill and experience want to charge a higher price than I do, I don't quibble with them. We each stand or fall on our own merits.
Besides, you will only stay in business if you are competent. Nobody can make it very long on one-shot clients. It's the repeaters who come back year after year that are your bread and butter. And if you aren't accurate with your forecasts and helpful in the things you point out, they will find somebody who is.
Also, I did not mean to imply that anyone threatened to blackmail an astrologer to keep a secret. I think that would be a very bad kind of client to have.
Remember when you were a kid and your best friend told you who she liked? If you went and blabbed it to the whole class--maybe she was not very good looking or popular and she had no real chance to get noticed by the best looking boy around and he was the one she liked-- she would be deeply embarrassed and the friendship would be severely strained if not over.
In my book, a friend's "secret" is like a trust. If she trusts me enough to talk to me about it, she shouldn't have to worry that I would use it to embarrass her.
>> Please think carefully about the following four questions, and answer clearly. Even if you do not tend to post, I ask that you give some careful time to think about these things.
1.What is the role of astrologers?
2.What should it be? or How can it be improved upon?
3.Are there different roles for different astrologers based on their training? (Some astrologers have degrees in psychology, law, business, etc.)
4.Should astrologers have a professional state license like beauticians, realtors, etc? >>
These questions take us into an area that is and always has been highly debated, with good people and good views on both sides of the answers.
One of our strengths is that we are not allied with any power structure in being licensed. That is also one of our weaknesses.
There is much to say on these issues and I have talked long enough.
More on Professionalism and Chart Interpretation
Pat replies,
This is a really hard thing for astrologers sometimes. But I always remember what a tough city editor taught me when I was a reporter: You can say absolutely anything in print if you know how to say it. You can also tell a client absolutely anything. The key is knowing HOW to say it.
A few things help. 1) Always-- but always --pray before you read a chart. I believe God uses us to help people and if you are willing to put your own ego aside and genuinely try to help your client, the words you need are ones you will find.
2) Consider the chart you have. A watery type needs sympathy and very gentle handling. Keep the Kleenex handy. Earthy people want you to offer some practical answers to their problems. Have a couple in mind before they get there. Air types can be detached apparently but they will want to talk about it A LOT. Double the time you allotted for their reading. Fire people may go all dramatic on you (watch out for the Leo moon here) but most prefer straight talk. Scorpios want you to just say it, Aquarians want you to pretend it's about a friend (not them, heavens no) and they'll take you all around the mulberry bush before they level with you.
3) Always remember you can be wrong. But if you really believe something needs saying, say it as tactfully and plainly as you can. Act like it's no big deal to you. As I tell clients, we all have problems, they're just in different areas.
4) Unless the client wants to talk about their sex life, don't hit them over the head with it. I learned this with a very skittish woman some years ago. We were talking about her lover and I accidentally referred to the lover as "she." This poor dear was so deep into the closet she was in Narnia and I later learned from a relative that she was terribly upset I knew and that she would never come back to me out of embarrassment. I continue to do the relative's chart, however.
If people want to talk about something, a few gentle questions may help them, but if there is resistance, let it be. This is their reading, not yours. If you start to talk about something you think needs saying and they turn you off, don't belabor the point. Sometimes all you need is to plant a seed and they'll do the rest of the work on their own.
5) Don't take it too hard if you screw up. Chalk it up to being human and go on.
6) Some clients don't want the truth. They want pipe dreams. I never feed the pipe dreams.
I had a client (still have) who came to me 25 years ago all ga ga over some married guy and I told her bluntly, over and over, that she didn't have a prayer with him. She cried--a lot. Years later she told me she still gets annoyed when I won't tell her what she wants to hear but she knows she can always count on me for the truth. ( Boy was that a long time coming.) Whenever she needs the truth she calls me up.
7) Keep praying for your clients after they're gone. What's that old saw? "More things have been wrought by prayer than this world dreams of." We all need prayers.
More on chart interpretation..
Subject: Sextiles
They are also in a sense unfinished trines, being half the sum of a trine. They resonate to Venus, the 6.
A trine in any chart reflects a full-blown talent. It is something an individual has to such a profound depth that it is ignored unless in use. One simply feels that one "is" a sun trine Mars, or a Venus trine Neptune. In times of stress or need, the talent is there, like money in the bank, to be used or spent.
People with too many trines are like people with old money. They don't need to shout about what they have but can't imagine not having a way to accomplish what they want. So they take a lot of things for granted and can sometimes be downright lazy with their talent.
What activates use, of course, is a dandy little square or two somewhere.
The sextile has its own rationale and doesn't need to be activated. It is already in action because it represents the development phase of talent. It's the farm team, in a way.
As an example, consider piano playing. A trine is like someone born with a perfect ear who can play by ear--whatever they hear they can play. Will they explore its full potential and become a virtuoso? Maybe, depending on whether or not the trine is goosed sufficiently by those other aspects I mentioned.
A sextile is the soul who yearns to play, finds music fascinating, goes to endless concerts to hear how it's done, just loves having a chance to play scales or learn how to read a score, etc.
The so-called Solomon's seal which King Solomon is said to have worn on his shield was a double grand trine reflecting the fire/air. It is the interlocking six-pointed star of Judaism. But it is also the full series of sextiles, and represents to those who understand its significance, a daunting array of ideas and energy to solve any problem as well as the completed trines of power and talent.
Sextiles are very nice to have. They keep you from being bored in life. They also keep you from being boring.
More on Chart Interpretation..
Subject: The house of war
The Aries/Libra polarity deals particularly with warfare. Aries is the soldier, Libra the strategy planning general.
The 7th house is the house of partnerships of all kinds--particularly marriage--but when a partnership breaks down (especially marriage) it leads to a state of war and sometimes to negotiation for peace or a legal dissolution. All relationships that fail are somehow "out of kilter, or unbalanced" by their very nature, and must be somehow put right. Very Libran.
Now obviously, you have the armed forces as "services" under Virgo, but that sign also deals with any special service groups, such as police, firefighters and the like, which have uniforms. The sign Scorpio, the other Mars-ruled sign, also produces military types, but any sun sign can bring forth warriors if there is a strong Mars in the chart.
As a sign, however, the old "night house of Mars," Scorpio shares the scene on warfare. The introduction of the Pluto influence has made Scorpio more deadly than ever in the military arena with the arrival of the nuclear era.
Subject: Re: Trines and Squares Question
Pat replies,
I have only a few charts with only trines -- one belonged to a butcher, the other to a factory worker. Neither man seemed to have any other interest in life besides job and family. Exceptionally "boring" people. Both are dead now, unfortunately, or I could ask them if they found life boring. Edgar Cayce said that some people apparently get "resting" lives after stressful ones. Hmmm? Maybe that was the case for those two men.
I have another chart almost all trines that belongs to a young man who sold drugs and went to prison for several years. Last I knew he was working as a janitor. I haven't heard anything else in 10 years or so.
As to Dennis Rodman's chart, it is one of the most stressful I have seen, with heavy squares in fixed signs. He was an enormously successful basketball player, although his athletic career seems to be over now. If he had a "nicer" personality he might have gotten more credit for his talent. He helped win championship titles on three different teams, including the Bulls.
I understand he is trying to jump-start a movie career now. There is something about that man that makes me feel terribly sorry for him. He makes himself so unhappy.
Many people with too many squares have difficulty "getting it together." While some stress in life seems to be good for us, too much seems to be defeating unless the individual works very hard. Dennis likes to drink and party and that undercuts a lot of his effort.
More on Chart Interpretation,
Subject: Re: Uranus rules Astrology?
Pat replies,
I have found Jupiter prominent more often in the charts of professional (not amateur) astrologers than Uranus, because so many of us write, teach, publish, travel, and lecture.
But curiously enough, I also have quizzed most of the pros I know about having a moon/Uranus and sun/Uranus aspect and most of them have both. They don't have to be just "good" aspects--any strong one will do. The moon because you can't stand up in public and say, "I am an astrologer," unless you are willing to be somewhat "different" and the sun refers to the career of all of us in some way.
I think the Jupiter is a big help in dealing with the culture as well, since it and Saturn are both planets of social consciousness. But let's face it--if you want to be a professional astrologer, you have to be willing to be seen as different.
I have had students who fully intended to become professional but who somehow never did--they lacked either the moon/Uranus contact or the sun/Uranus. One student with no moon/Uranus contact just couldn't bring herself to tell her friends that she was an astrologer. She could call it her hobby, but she just couldn't wear the label.
More on Chart Interpretation,
Subject: Re: Venus/Mars square Neptune
Pat replies,
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. There is only one kind of alcoholic--a person who drinks compulsively. All the rest is simply rationalization. There are as many rationalizations as there are people--the way each person rationalizes his or her drinking may reflect a pattern in the birth chart, but that's because the way we do ANYTHING reflects the patterns in our birth charts.
The patterns of alcoholism in the birth chart reflect a desire to use chemical means to escape the consequences of reality, along with the frustrations of life--there is always a Neptune problem. I have the charts of many, many alcoholics I have known and the patterns repeat endlessly. Alcoholism is a self-inflicted disease. Any alcoholic can begin to recover by not drinking. Easier said than done, of course, but that is the basis of AA's work--choosing not to drink for one day.
I think it would repay you to read some of the AA literature or books (available in any library) or any of the studies on alcoholism. It might offer more illumination than the astrological aspects.
More on chart interpretation
Subject: Re: Venus/Mars square Neptune
And then X said:
>> Uh, doesn't *Eveybody* want to 'escape reality at some point? Even the partier on Saturday night, who wants to forget his busy work week?<<
Pat replies,
There are lots of reality avoidance methods other than booze or drugs.
I adore fantasy and sci fi literature, for instance. I am a retired newspaperwoman and in some 30 years in the business I have read all the stories I ever want to about crooked politicians, venal clergymen, child abusers, murderers, sex criminals and the like.
I think stories about witches and elves are just dandy. For escape, I want a world that I know is fantasy and where the bad stuff ISN'T TRUE and everybody gets a happy ending. Does that make me nuts? No, it's just one way to find some relief from life's daily routines. There are many others, of course.
>> While alcoholism may be explained by some aspects in the birth chart, it does not mean that *everyone* who has those aspects, are alcoholics or addicts. The 'problem is , you don't understand Neptune people.'
This is the mark of the Highly Sensitive Person. Who feels things too deeply, doesn't like the world they are in, and wants to escape, because it is too painful. It is also the mark of the Highly Sensitive Person, who feels others pain, and becomes either a sucker, or a healer. ( usually some of both) This is the mark of the Highly Sensitive Person, who is in touch with a higher spiritual realm, and not only desires that mystical connection in their personal love relationships, but desires it for the whole world. We are the walking wounded, the sensitives, intuitives, the guides, teachers, helpers and healers. You need us. >>
You are correct--but Neptune is like the mythical Hindu rope trick in which a magician makes a rope stand upright and a boy climbs up it and disappears.
At the bottom level, Neptune is pretty murky, full of confusion, illusion and deception. It's the realm of the con artist and the magician who does a trick.
Go up a little higher and you find sensitivity and creativity and intuition.
The highest level of Neptune extends beyond our vision, into the realm we can only touch with prayer and love, where the child disappears and the magic becomes real.
Yes, we need the Neptunians in our midst. We are ALL highly sensitive persons.
We all have Neptune in our charts. Whether we choose to use it to become wise and loving and giving or we settle for booze and partying on Saturday night is up to each of us. No excuses. We are what we choose to be.
and more..
People with Neptune in hard aspect to the ascendant often have a very slim tolerance for alcohol--either they can't drink at all (or very little) or they don't because they don't like the effect. They may like the taste, however.
Alcoholics often dislike the taste but like the effect. And I know that's true--I've known a zillion alcoholics in my life and they've told me.
Oh, and people with the hard aspects to the ascendant from Neptune also have difficulty with other chemicals in the body--weird reactions to novocaine, or difficulty with anesthesia, many allergies to antibiotics, etc.
and more..
I don't consider a conjunction "hard" as much as a "blend." Let me give you an example.
I made some lemon bars for dessert for my son and his wife when they came for dinner yesterday. It was the first thing my son learned to make when he was a little boy and I stumbled across the recipe when I was looking for my blackberry jam recipe and decided to make it for him. I know it's been at least 20 years since he had the things. (I made the blackberry jam, too, by the way.)
Anyway, the recipe for lemon bars calls for the juice of real lemons to be mixed with Eagle brand evaporated milk, a very sickeningly sweet concoction that makes wonderful baked goods. Lemon juice and that evaporated milk are sharply different (but needed to play off each other.)
Once the bars are made they have to be frosted with a butter cream frosting. I use real butter and real vanilla. Now butter and vanilla are also quite different, but they blend in the taste buds and most of us find anything with real butter and vanilla very tasty indeed. I consider they make a great conjunction.
And, when you put the lemon juice and that gooey evaporated milk together in a recipe, THEY make a great conjunction. You can also put lemon with butter--a great conjunction. Ditto the vanilla and evaporated milk.
Conjunctions to my way of thinking are how we take diverse qualities and merge them to create something new.
And all that from a batch of lemon bars.
And more...
Pat replies,
Neptune to the ascendant shows with his love for his wine, I believe. A conjunction can be a hard aspect, but a square definitely is, for instance.
However, there are many people who have a "high tolerance." Some of them eventually cross the line to compulsive drinking after 40 years or more. Why? Hey, I don't know, but there is some thought in scientific circles that the mechanism that keeps us free of compulsion can break down from too many "assaults" of high levels of alcohol.
Also, I should point out, that many people who have drinking problems start off with very high tolerance for the stuff, which deserts them later in their drinking careers.
I am NOT saying your husband is an alcoholic. That's way out of my realm of competence to judge just because he collects wine.
>>.. people with hard aspects to the ascendant from Neptune >also have difficulty with other chemicals in the body .. mmmm! I have Neptune sextile Asc - but Neptune is conj Moon. Should I not have "less weird reactions" to drugs because of this sextile .. or is it the Moon conj that make drugs so dangerous for me?<<
Having seen your chart I know you have LOTS of Neptune problems with that Moon/Neptune. It is part of your total pattern, not indicated by just a single aspect. I wrote a post earlier which outlines my feelings on this matter. There is no single aspect that is the ONLY aspect to provide anything. There are many roads to Rome, my dear.
More on Chart Interpretation,
Subject: Re: Virgo and Aquarius
Pat replies,
There is nothing in life I so value as someone who can fix things. When my oldest (Virgo) daughter moved to Boston, I thought, there go my repairs for the next zillion years.
Luckily, I had a second daughter with the moon in Virgo who has developed into a whiz at fixing almost anything. She is now keeping me on the straight and narrow, repairing towel racks, leaky faucets and light fixtures.
When my eldest came home for a visit this summer the two of them all but mowed me down improving my life.
Before long I will be so improved I will have to die of excessive perfection.