You have all responded heavily to my post on how I have seen the 29th degree manifesting. This will probably be a long post (if I answer everyone) so if you get bored, pass on by.

 << I personally do not agree with this statement. In a previous post X said that: people having planets on the last degree "are very accomplished in the qualities" of that degree". I tend to agree with her. My ruling planet (Libra rising) is 29 Pisces, and I can vouch that I (for good, or worse) I exhibit the qualities of Pisces very very strongly. And as it's the last degree of the Zodiac, I always have that nagging feeling that I am at the end of a big cycle, finishing unfinished business and ready to start a new cylce( 0^ Aries) >>

I had said the qualities of the sign weaken as the decanates go on. Perhaps I could have expressed that better. Think of the decanate rulers a minute: We have always used the first decanate of Aries as the Mars/Mars one, the second decanate as the Mars/Sun and the third as Mars/Jupiter. In each subsequent decanate, therefore, the "purity" perhaps of the Mars/Mars gets mixed with sun or Jupiter qualities. They add new influences to Aries.

I did NOT mean to imply that the people of those subsequent decanates were "weak" in the qualities of the sign, but rather that the sign itself began to become more mixed in the qualities it gives to planets in its area.

Your post sounds far more Aries than Pisces--exactly my point. The 29th degree is the last straw of the old and the individual looks forward to the new sign and planets often express the new sign far more openly than the older one. -------------------------I said: A Venus that is there shows there will be disappointment in the love life and often a struggle to provide security. Certainly one will work long and hard to provide the good things in life. They will not be given to you.

X objected, saying: >>No astrological configuration indicates that anything *will* definitely happen, or that anything is cast in stone. <<

I only wish that were true. Some things do seem to be "cast in stone." I am not running the universe, merely doing charts, but I see things that seem inevitable no matter how one tries to avoid them. (Some have happened to me!) Yes, many other things are NOT inevitable. And for the record, HOW WE RESPOND to any particular thing always seems to be under our control.

X also said: >>astrology *cannot* predict what a person does with his/her natal potentials. <<

 I agree on this --but one can have a very good idea, based on the pattern.

--------------------Several protested my phrase on signs becoming "weaker" as they went along and X asked:

>>One question then: how do you explain that Venus is *exalted* at 27^ Pisces???<<

This is an important question and Evangeline Adams, the mother of American astrology, had some interesting things to say about the Venus function for the human race. She saw it as primarily being useful for the furtherance of racial survival, and in Taurus, of course, it enhances physical desires and gives one the urge to reproduce and to find that function pleasureful. She said Venus in Libra was not as "useful" to humankind because Libra was not a sign very interested in procreation. Libra Venuses tended to concentrate on relationships themselves and the arts, and less on the physical. And by the way, I am paraphrasing her. At any rate, she went on to say that in Pisces, the sign of its exaltation, its influence on love became so universal that Venus spent its energy in ways to help make life better but that also weren't very useful in terms of procreation. Interesting, isn't it?

Anyway, several of the planets have exaltation degrees late in the signs, as if the admixture I spoke about above were necessary to bring out the best in those particular planets. The moon, however, which gives form to energy, is exalted in the first decanate of Taurus--the Venus/Venus area. Reproduction apparently needs all the solid Taurus it can get.

X asks: >>So Pat, how about f'rinstance, Pluto at 29+ opposition Venus at 28+. Does the opposition draw that Venus into the same 'last degree' interpretation? Or would any configuration (sq, sex) to the anaretic planet be drawn into the same type of interpretation?<<

Not in my opinion. Only Pluto, looking beyond the present and into the future for its goals, is anaretic. It develops a new vision for loving perhaps, but Venus is not anaretic, and the individual does not "suffer" the same as a 29 degree plus Venus does. Perhaps it isn't necessary. Besides, Pluto will drag Venus into the future anyway. ---------------------X said: >>I believe that the most important point to remember about planets at the 29th degree is that that planet, or those planets, are always ready or getting ready to make a change. And they are often of two minds about a single subject - it is very easy to see both sides of the question, if you see what I mean.<<

X said: >> With my Gemini Mercury at 29, and squaring Neptune, it is a wonder I can ever make up my mind at all! In fact in some situations (not personal) it is helpful to see all sides to every question; for example, when I am doing therapy with a family or a group. Otherwise, it is confusing. When I do make up my mind, I often change it if new information comes in. I really dislike controversy..perhaps for this reason. I am not able to take a polarized stand on most things. I think that everyone is partially correct.<<

I agree with you both--the 29th degree has a kind of "universal" influence that I think sometimes operates outside the sign altogether and might even be symbolized by the God Janus--the two-headed god of the Romans who looked both back into the past and forward into the future.

------------------X asked: >>Since we're talking about PLANETS in last degree of a sign, how about house cusps? Especially the angles? If a woman with Sun in last degree is said to attract ineffectual husband, a man with sun is said to have inhibited career, etc., what then of a person with an Ascendant or Midheaven similarly placed?<<

Here again, I find problems. The sign rising will show its problems. Last degree of Aries often has a lot of migraines without the physical resilience of Aries. The individual will look more Taurean, perhaps, or seem more Taurean, than Aries. Heavier, for instance. Again, its the "new sign" effect.

Ditto the career--The 29th degree Scorpio MC may run into problems in the Scorpio choice and not settle down until it switches to a Sag. Type career. One nurse I know was never happy in a hospital--constantly at odds with the rules and management. She ended up doing one of those medical ship things to Africa, worked her buns off and found what she really like doing. Now she's a medical missionary for her church and goes all over the world. --------------------

X wrote: >>I don't think you can make the blanket statement that a man who has a Sun in the 29th degree has an inhibited career. I personally know of a man who has his sun at 29 Taurus 19 in the 10th who had a wonderful career as a teacher for 20 years then decided to go to medical school. He has been an MD and going into his 25th year of practice.<<

See above. He may very well have had a wonderful career but he made a major change midway. So did the nurse I mentioned. This was a typical characteristic I mentioned in the original post.

-------------X said: >>I have 29+ Cancer/Capricorn for my MC/IC axis, and would like to say that they have manifested as mastery, but misery is a more accurate description. My early home life was constricting and in my career I come across as "motherly." Which is not always appreciated and which my airy nature finds embarrassing. So, although I would like to believe the more positive and hopeful interpretations of the 29th degree which have been posted here, the more depressing interpretations apply..<<

Maybe a change of career would help? ----------------------------X said: >> I am a Sun Capricorn so knowing the outcome and having things in order is important...but as one astrologer friend told me when it comes to emotions I jump in the pool and then look to see if there is any water in it!!<<

This is so classic a statement about VOC anarectic moons I couldn't resist just adding it here. I have a client just that way!
----------------X said: >> have my Jupiter in Sag. at 29* in the 4th. My mother's sun ruler was Jupiter which represents her in my chart. Boy did we ever have a difficult relationship. I'm suspecting because of the 4th house involvement this was definitely a tie to the past, and being at a critical degree we both finally had to deal with each other.

We didn't get along while I lived under her roof because she liked to keep me very sheltered and very controlled. It wasn't until I was out of the house things got better. She died last year but we made our peace before that happened, hence that critical degree of the nature of our relationship was finally settled.<<

I rarely get into the possibility of past life stuff (even tho it may be valid) because the 29th degree alone explains things so well. Usually a Sag Jupiter in 4 parent opens doors and brings the child into the wide world, rather than keeping it sheltered. But Capricorn is more controlling and fearful than Sag--hence part of the reason that relationship was a tough one.

X sent a WONDERFUL post: >> How would you account for these men , all who have 29th degree suns? Can you seriously believe that they all had difficulties or health problems affecting the pursuit of their careers or that they were ineffective career-wise? They were nearly all strong, confident and very effective men, one or two had health problems but that didn't hinder their careers in any way.

Edgar Allen Poe 	19 Jan 1809  - 29 Cap 05 
Federico Fellini	20 Jan 1920  - 29 Cap 08 
Ovid			20 Mar 0042  - 29 Pis 39 
George Burns		20 Jan 1896  - 29 Cap 59 
Honore De Balzac	20 May 1799 - 29 Tau 20 
Raymond Burr		21 May 1917 - 29 Tau 50 
W. Sepharial		20 Mar 1864 - 29 Pis 44 
Robert Montgomery	21 May 1904 - 29 Tau 58 
Fats Waller		21 May 1904 - 29 Tau 58 
James Stewart		20 May 1908 - 29 Tau 02 
Jean Paul Sartre	21 Jun 1905 - 29 Gem 32 
Gen. George Patton	19 Nov 1885 - 29 Sco 18 
Charles Degaulle	22 Nov 1890  - 29 Sco 50 
Ray Bradbury		22 Aug 1920  - 29 Leo 27 
Hoagy Carmichael	22 Nov 1899  - 29 Sco 59 
Johnny Carson		23 Oct 1925  - 29 Lib 33 
Wyatt Earp		19 Mar 1848  - 29 Pis 02 
Ray Charles		23 Sep 1930  - 29 Vir 23 
Michael Redgrave	20 Mar 1908  - 29 Pis 29 
Henrik Ibsen		20 Mar 1828  - 29 Pis 52 
BF Skinner		20 Mar  1904 - 29 Pis 27 
Carl Reiner		20 Mar 1922  - 29 Pis 18

Or How about these women, do you believe that they all only attracted ineffective or passive men?

Grace Kelly, Rose Kennedy, Geraldine Page, Jane Russell, Goldie Hawn, George Eliot, Geraldine Page.

I can go on, there are many, many more of them but I think that we have already reached overkill. The point is that I think that it is quite apparent that a generalization about 29th degrees or any other single astrological factor is something to be avoided. No single factor in a chart ever means anything on its own. <<

Each one of these people illustrates some point about the 29th degree beautifully. When I said passive or ineffectual husbands for women with 29th degree, I used those terms as examples of the problems --not the ONLY problems.

I would not have wanted the man Rose Kennedy married no matter how rich and powerful he was--he was a SOB and made her miserable, if you know anything about him.

Goldie Hawn's "husband" isn't. She and Kurt have yet to formalize a situation that leaves all their children as bastards. And yes, I know, I know--it's fashionable nowadays to have kids out of wedlock, but who doesn't love who enough in this deal? Grace Kelly's husband was a prince, but there is plenty of evidence to suggest she wasn't all that happy. ETc. etc.

As to the men, take Raymond Burr--his health problems were well known and cut short his career. George Burns lost Gracie, his lifelong comedy partner (the one who said the funny stuff--he was the straight man) and had to restructure his career to become the funny guy. Poe was thought to be a near lunatic, even if a wonderful poet.

The 29th degree does not prevent success, but it may come as a result of change or be less than it otherwise might due to some flaw. Those are more possibilities.

---------------------A lot of you objected to my comments because you think I was simplistic and deterministic about astrology. I was not --merely offering some examples of how this 29th degree business works, in my experience.

--------------------X added: >> I think that it is quite apparent that a generalization about 29th degrees or any other single astrological factor is something to be avoided. No single factor in a chart ever means anything on its own.<<

My rule No. 1 in astrology is: Everything modifies everything else.

 But given that, there ARE single factors that mean things on their own. They may be modified by other things, but they do have an intrinsic meaning and it must be kept in mind for good interpretation or we make many more mistakes.

--------------X wrote:

In one year, I met three people with 29 degree, the same 29 degree...I won't say which, in case it is too much for some, but they were all within 5 years of each other, in their 40s. All three were messed up, but functioning. On the outside, they looked great, with careers, money, friends, etc. But come to know that one had only 1/3 of their innerds (I forget which ones now), from an teen years operation where the doctors thought that they needed to remove a lot because of ulcers and later found out it was all a terrible mistake. The next one was a major, falling down, drunk and liar-after 4PM. The last one, I met because I pulled his daughter out and away from a huge campfire when a large bit of burning wood landed on the blanket that surround her! This guy had been fired many times because of his learning disabilities (airplane mechanic!) and was so drunk that he set his children next to a roaring camp fire with highly flammable blankets wrapped around them. Jeese! However, he did appear at first to be pretty cool.<<

This is so clear an example I am breathless.

I think I will quit this overly long post. There are tons more comments I didn't get to--please forgive me if you said something you wanted me to reply to and I didn't.

Pat replies,

I positively dread counseling women clients with the moon anaretic and void of course, and it sounds like yours might be.

Some years back I had a client (haven't seen her recently) who wanted my opinion on everything and then wanted to argue about it and couldn't make up her mind about anything. I once discussed both sides of an issue with her (some property sale, as I recall) and she insisted I was wrong on both sides (to sell or not to sell). But she couldn't figure out which side she wanted, either, and she was convinced there wasn't a third side to argue about. Gahhhhh

I have found that this position means that people also experience emotional distress in a really cockeyed way--no matter what happens or what is going to happen they never know how they "feel" about anything at the time until later when it rears up and smacks em in the face.

In practice, they don't know what is going to hurt or soothe them and they act without realizing this vital little bit of information. This woman didn't know her dad's death would "hurt" and was stunned when it did. Talk about a blind spot.

Anyway, my dear, you have my sympathy with that position.

<< How does that differ from 0 degree planets? >>

Pat replies,

Just to stick some more opinions into the soup, I'll tell you what I see. It's a good idea to think of the beginning of the sign as the strongest area of it--or the place where its qualities manifest the most clearly. Each subsequent decanate is slightly less potent. 29 degrees is the last straw--the last gasp, as it were, and the weakest point of the sign. Planets at 28 are not as far gone. Any planet in the 29th degree in my opinion acts weakly in terms of the sign's qualities and presents the chart with a fuzzy image of that area of the life or the people it represents.

Example: Women with suns in 29 degrees plus minutes often marry men who mean well but who are--in some way--somewhat ineffectual. They may have trouble keeping a good job, or their parenting skills are non-existent, or they are born followers, or too passive, or have emotional problems or something. Maybe they just can't manage money and screw up the budget until you take it away from them, but they lack something noticeably.

Men with suns there often have career difficulties, or make at least one major career change (NOT simply the job but the entire field) and/or have a health problem which affects their career, preventing its pursuit, etc.

Other planets have different expressions in those areas.

By the way, I recall reading some years back about one study in which someone said the vast majority of American presidents were born in the first decanate of their sun sign. I never checked it out myself, but I found it interesting at the time.

If anybody wants to verify that, we would all benefit, I'm sure.